MSD MC4 or Schnitz II ????

OK here's what I have..1428cc kawi drawthru w/an E/F rajay..BHP multi stage wastegate, S&S E carb 70" W/B  10" car tire. Currently running an older MSD MC1. I want to switch to either the MC4 or Schnitz II.

What I'm looking to do is to be able to be able to incorporate EVERYTHING into one unit... I also have NOS that I want to use/ramp as well. The bike is a "driver" with a 26x12.50 x15 MT sportsman pro...But I want MORE than what I have for addons such as advance/retard abilities and all the other adjustments MOST of which I DONT have. What would you guys advise??? EASE of use and simplicity to hook up is also a plus..I understand I'll have to buy extra's such as possibly coils,wires,pickup etc.. have .3ohm coils,single mag.pickup now..  IF it makes a difference I do have the MSD tester as well. ... OH..and WHY???

Brent

Edited by 2QK4U - 13 January 2008 at 11:20am

walt timblin will give you the best deal on the schnitz box...without a doubt...he told me that schnitz is coming out with a new box soon as well...more programable like the msd....FYI...

Dennis..look SWEET...may be MUCH more than I need... I have no sensors..or EFI.. just an old school kawi w/turbo/nos that I want some adjustability all in the same package... the 2 step, rev limiter,shift light,POSSIBLE auto shift, ramping ability w/nos, and timing features are probably the basics I would need/use... anything more would probably be of no use to me..  I've been leaning MORE towards the II than the 4 as it appears to be easier to adjust w/out having to buy extra's.. I WAS concerned about the coils NOT being streetable as I DO ride this thing on the street... however "streetable" on a bike like this is like a car w/a 900hp engine being streetable... you drive it around a bit... then let it cool down and do it again.. you DONT go on a trip..lol Any idea on price as opposed to the II and how soon it'll be avaiilable??

Brent

Edited by 2QK4U - 13 January 2008 at 9:03am

LOL, was just posting about this...  Remember this?

http://msdignition.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9876

I never have gotten the new ignition to work soild.  I just don't trust it.  I had sent it back to the mfg. and they tested it for a few days and could not find a problem.  They will not swap it out.   I can run it on my home made test setup and swap from my old repaired MC-4 to the new one and the new one will flake out where the old one does not.  I am sure that they were not running near the tests and conditions I was.   The new one just seems more sensitive to noise (maybe crank) than my older one.  

If I were doing it all over again, I would have stayed with my MC-2 and forgot about anything other than fixed timing.  I never had any problems with it and wish now I had not sold it. 

I'm sure others have had great luck with the MC-4.  I really liked my first one and had no problems until I blew the thing up (see above post).   I have zero experience with any of the Schintz products.  Would love to benchmark one, or even put one on the bike just to see how it performs.  If you buy one and want to rent it to me for a couple of weeks, let me know....  It may not come back working though LOL!!

My MC-4 test jig.

Dyna products have NEVER failed me. I'll stick with a proven dependible product!

Not trying to bash you or the product, just pointing out whats stated... (if I'm bashing anything at this point it's the MC-4). 

It's an interesting point you bring up.  Your unit is not potted then I assume  and conformal coated instead?  This has a few benefits, should be lighter and could be repaired or maybe even upgraded.   The potting MSD uses should handle vibration very well and it may help remove heat from some of the internal parts. 

"Can you send a MSD unit in and have all new control electronics installed for half the cost of a new unit and start over with a new warranty?"

Good question...

Looking on your site, your ignition run $949.00.   The MC-4 runs $699 at MPS.  
So, if your unit dies, you now have 949 + 949/2 = $1424 plus you get 90 more days on the clock.  If your MC-4 dies, you have 699 X 2 = $1398 invested.  The warranty on the MC-4 is one year. 

After your second one dies, your really saving $$$ with MSD.  The more electronics  you damage, the better off you are!!!!  LOL



Dennis, if your really feel I am bashing your work (which I really know nothing about) and want to win me over as a customer, how about we make a little deal. 

So far I have bought two MC-4s but with these latest problems I would be willing to try something else. 

Here's the deal.  Send me your latest ignition and I will benchmark it against my MC-4s.  You supply the harness, ignition (I have the coils) and cover the shipping costs to me.   You will not hold me liable for any damages that occur during these tests (not that I would be trying to damage your unit but the MC-4 can be damaged when running it inside their normal operating range).  If the unit does become damaged, I would include any test setup info in my report.  

I may also need some support from you to help answer questions.  I have gone over your manuals and it looks pretty clear so I don't see this being a big drain on your time. 

If it appears a little one sided, consider the time I will have to invest to setup to run and document such a test.    

Because the two systems do not have the same features, your ignition will need to be tested a little different than the MC-4.  But, beware, I would be checking every little detail of what you claim your unit can do.  If you have a problem, I will hunt it down to the end.

When I am done, I will pay the shipping costs to return your unit and any parts you supplied.  I will include a copy of my findings.  My testing will not take any more than say a month.   If I do find problems, I would not make these public (or any of my results for that matter) until you have had a chance to respond to them directly. My goal is to determine if your system really is a better design, not to bash you as you put it.

If indeed I am happy with what I find, I will buy one to try out. It's not like you know anything about me and I can see where lack of trust could be an issue.  So, to spare you any risk, beyond having your design critiqued and possibly a damaged unit if it does not hold up, I will supply you with full payment for the unit.  If we get beyond the 4 weeks of testing and I become a dead beat looser, just take the payment for the parts and your out nothing.   This is about as low a risk I can make it for you.


Mark



Edited by geek - 25 January 2008 at 6:46pm

Originally posted by Technoman64 They can be purchased from Schnitz Racing for testing if you like.

Who do I need to talk with, or where can I find more information about this?

I really have no idea which ignition was used to win the most races in the last 5 years.  It would be interesting to know.

Just doing a quick search on a few bikes....

http://sell.dragbike.com/detail.asp?id=4140

Not sure if they all run MSD, or if MSD is just a sponcer.  Like Torco was a sponcer for people running VP?  Just looking at a few of the P/S bikes seems they are running it.
 http://www.msdpowersports.com/racers.html




Edited by geek - 25 January 2008 at 8:06pm

When will the III be ready?  Is a manual available for download? 

The first link was Coulson's funny bike and he wins/won his fair share with it.  It's been a while sence I have been to any big races. From what I remember, most of the bikes (T/G and S/C) back then were running the 4000.    Most of the weekend E/T racers I see don't run nitrous.  Just one more variable to chase.   Would be fun to go to a big race again just to see whats popular now. 

For us switching to your ignition would remove the Dyna shift counter and maybe the auto, depending on how yours works. 

Dennis.  On the pro3 are you going to have a 3 step for a burnout rev limiter.  Thats the only thing I wish my pro 2 had.  

I would like to be able to add timing back in towards the end of a pass....