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turbo alcohol busa mech fuel injection ?

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Allen View Drop Down
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  Quote Allen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: turbo alcohol busa mech fuel injection ?
    Posted: 29 October 2009 at 5:50pm
I am in the design stage of a turbo alcohol funnybike. I am initially planning on around 600hp.
I have noticed a few turbo 'busa bikes using mechanical injection. how is the fuel curve managed? I understand with a blower, there is a constant rate of boost. A turbo does not have a steady boost rate. Can anyone tell me the difference  between a   mechanical turbo alcohol fuel curve as compared to say, a blown nitro mechanical system?
is there some type of a pressure sensitive variable bleed off valve?
am I overthinking this and it doesnt matter if it runs rich in some parts of the curve?
Any help appreciated.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2009 at 5:55pm
Turbo mechanical FI systems use a "boost sensor" that regulates system pressure according to boost pressure.  More boost = more fuel pressure
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  Quote Allen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2009 at 6:14pm
Thank you very much.
Who sells the boost sensors?
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  Quote riceburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2009 at 6:23pm
What kind of components do you currently have?
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  Quote Allen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2009 at 6:32pm
I do not have any fuel system specifically for this bike yet. we have a lot of spare parts laying around the shop. I am trying to sort out the fuel injection while the chassis is being built.
I am trying to find out what I need to buy or make.
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  Quote riceburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2009 at 7:00pm
You will need a pump, throttle bodies, necessary check valves, plenum chamber and a boost compensator to make a system that is operational.  Of this will include the necessary exhaust pipe and other items.

s.r.


Edited by Admin - 29 October 2009 at 9:13pm
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  Quote riceburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2009 at 7:07pm
I would highly recommend the guy that does my fuel systems. Cant tell you his name though.

Edited by riceburner - 29 October 2009 at 7:12pm
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  Quote John Davis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2009 at 9:31pm
Kinsler and Hilborne both offer componets for what you are asking about. JD
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  Quote xracerz06 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2009 at 12:33pm
If you derive satisfaction from designing and fabricating the components yourself from parts you have around the shop, or you source components from various sources without asssurance that the components are compatible, you will likely face a costly, steep learning curve, frustration and disappointment.
 
If you want the turbo and  fuel system to be reliable constants--- so that you can focus your attention on other challenging aspects of a funnybike (such as clutch management)---  then purchase a comprehensive, proven turbo/fuel system from a known and accomplished source.
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  Quote Allen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2009 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by xracerz06

If you derive satisfaction from designing and fabricating the components yourself from parts you have around the shop, or you source components from various sources without asssurance that the components are compatible, you will likely face a costly, steep learning curve, frustration and disappointment.
 
If you want the turbo and  fuel system to be reliable constants--- so that you can focus your attention on other challenging aspects of a funnybike (such as clutch management)---  then purchase a comprehensive, proven turbo/fuel system from a known and accomplished source.


First off, I posted here in an attempt to find out who manufactured fuel systems for my application, and I was emphatically told that the only manufactures that can be discussed on this forum are the advertisers.
Secondly, this is by no means the first bike built by us, it is, however, the first Hayabusa turbo engined bike. We already have a mechanically injected nitro funnybike, and a mechanically injected blown nitro top fuel bike built from scratch in the shop. My actual question was how to set up a curve to compensate for the turbo boost. I did get my answer here, sort of. I was told there is a valve that does what I need. I was hoping for a discussion of different setups that work on this bike, so I could make an educated decision based on my needs, rather than trial and error of using each fuel system. I ended up calling all the fuel system manufactures (no, not only the  ones from the approved list) and I eventually found the information I needed. I also found out the information on the transmission the same way, with hours and hours on the telephone, researching the old fashioned way. I was hoping the forum could save my ear a bit, I am able to use the computer more than I can dedicate myself to the telephone. there are very few Hayabusa funnybikes in competition, and I am having mine built different from the others. there is no simple package to purchase and bolt on.

here is a picture of the top fueler built at the same shop, about 90% of this bike was hand fabricated, including the fuel system and the clutch.


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  Quote funny1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2009 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by Allen

I am in the design stage of a turbo alcohol funnybike. I am initially planning on around 600hp.
I have noticed a few turbo 'busa bikes using mechanical injection. how is the fuel curve managed? I understand with a blower, there is a constant rate of boost. A turbo does not have a steady boost rate. Can anyone tell me the difference  between a   mechanical turbo alcohol fuel curve as compared to say, a blown nitro mechanical system?
is there some type of a pressure sensitive variable bleed off valve?
am I overthinking this and it doesnt matter if it runs rich in some parts of the curve?
Any help appreciated.
 
What kind of blower has a constant rate of boost? Just askin
 
Quit asking me questions that make me remember how long ago that was!
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  Quote tbski101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2009 at 5:39pm
a blower has a boost curve based on RPM. match the fuel pump RPM pressure curve to the blower curve, they are both kind of tied together by RPM.  you can work out the fuel curve by the blower boost curve.A turbo doesnt care about RPM for its boost curve. I think thats what he is talking about as a constant rate.
tommy brounkowski
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  Quote Allen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2009 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by funny1

Originally posted by Allen

I am in the design stage of a turbo alcohol funnybike. I am initially planning on around 600hp.
I have noticed a few turbo 'busa bikes using mechanical injection. how is the fuel curve managed? I understand with a blower, there is a constant rate of boost. A turbo does not have a steady boost rate. Can anyone tell me the difference  between a   mechanical turbo alcohol fuel curve as compared to say, a blown nitro mechanical system?
is there some type of a pressure sensitive variable bleed off valve?
am I overthinking this and it doesnt matter if it runs rich in some parts of the curve?
Any help appreciated.
 
What kind of blower has a constant rate of boost? Just askin
 

a belt driven supercharger has a predictable linear rate of boost.
a turbocharger is based on pressure. There is also a problem with turbo lag when setting up a fuel system
a mechanical fuel injection provides a linear fuel curve based on engine RPM.
to use a mechanical fuel injection with a turbo requires a boost pressure activated regulator to control fuel flow according to boost (or lack thereof)

I should have said "linear rate" rather than "constant rate" in my original post.


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  Quote funny1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2009 at 5:50pm

I bet your right------the wording got me Confused

thanks

Quit asking me questions that make me remember how long ago that was!
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  Quote BigDan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 1:02am
allen do u have any more pics of the top fueler in action?
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Allen View Drop Down
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  Quote Allen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 1:24am
of course I do, most of the good shots are at http://www.vroomroom.com/ron.html
I also have a few videos on youtube.




I do not have the video or photos from his best run yet, I was unable to make that event.
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