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Fun with spark plugs

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geek View Drop Down
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  Quote geek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 October 2009 at 5:22pm
I made up another brand new set of wires using different MSD boots with 90 deg bend.  I ran a quick test and same problem.    
 
Sounds like this is the same problem I was told about.  They saw the video clip.  Suggested a different brand of wire and boot.    I may see if I can find the same stuff they were using.  
 
Hey Scott, some very helpful info there.  Thanks for posting it.  I wondered if your company had a standard they were using for pressure and gas.    I was considering the pressure was a little different at  the time of ignition.   May not have been clear in prev. posts, but I was using (1 - (28 (ign timing) / 180 deg ) ) * cranking pressure.   Then converting to atm.   This is why the cranking pressure and number I was using to calc. the total pressure was the about the same.  Ones PSIG, the other A.
 
 
Yes this test setup really should all be mounted on a plane.  My plan is to make a wooden box to hold everything with some cavities for the pumps, power supply, computer interface, etc.  Then line it with copper.   The window will have a screen that you can view through the box once the lid is closed up.     
 
Currently the thing is running in some rolled up screen mesh for the most part, except when I want to get a better picture with the camera.    It's a pile of electronic mess spilled onto the floor in my little home lab.    Our dog seems smart enough not to go near it.  I think its the sound of the spark that bothers him.
 
The path for the current is between the outputs of the coils.  The other path is the between the outputs of the ignition.     Isolating the chamber is not doing much but your right that it would help the noise to get this all on a plane.   As the chamber is floating, I am sure if you touched it while the test was running, you would feel it.    Ground strap would prevent this as well. 
 
 
 
 
 
As I proof my post, my finger on the send key, I pause, read it once more, then press. Mark
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Stuartracing View Drop Down
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  Quote Stuartracing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 October 2009 at 7:05pm
I have a Dyna Twin Fire Coil if it`s something you`d like to try/checkout......Part #DC9-2......
Or is it not coils that you are interested in???? I know it says "fun with spark plugs".....


Edited by Stuartracing - 09 October 2009 at 7:25pm
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geek View Drop Down
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  Quote geek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2009 at 8:43pm
Hum, lost that first post.   Web site seems to be hanging every so often now days.

Thank you very much for the offer to help in this little experiment.  My fear is that I may damage your coils.   The parts I am testing are all old, or damaged in some way.   So if one of my coils breaks down internally, I'm not really out anything.


As I proof my post, my finger on the send key, I pause, read it once more, then press. Mark
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  Quote Stuartracing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2009 at 9:49pm
I`m not going to ever use it , so that is why I offered it to you....It`s 2 coils in one unit with 4 spark plug wire inlets/outlets.....
Send me your address and I`ll send it to you.....
I only used it for a month till the mounting post broke and I ordered a new one.....
I don`t run a Dyna 4000 anymore so It`s just sitting here.....
If you blow it up ,YOU can throw it away,LOL.....
Paul.....


Edited by Stuartracing - 10 October 2009 at 9:50pm
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geek View Drop Down
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  Quote geek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 October 2009 at 8:15pm
Thanks Paul.  Sounds like a good fit.  Hate to run new parts as I really don't treat them with much respect.  

I have been thinking about how the original people at Dyna came up with those numbers for Nitrogen.    If I knew a ball park for my engine, may be fun to try some pressure tests with gasoline to see what the actual breakdown voltage is. 
As I proof my post, my finger on the send key, I pause, read it once more, then press. Mark
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Bill Hahn Jr. View Drop Down
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  Quote Bill Hahn Jr. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 October 2009 at 9:43pm
  Eeps!  Better use remote control on that version!
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  Quote geek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 October 2009 at 9:57pm
What I was thinking is we have a couple of large fast acting blow off valves set just above the pressure I plan to ignite at.   May not be as bad as it first seems.

Guessing that someone did tests like this to figure out what pressure they needed for Nitrogen versus gasoline/air mix.   I would think that the gasoline/air would be a lot different. 
As I proof my post, my finger on the send key, I pause, read it once more, then press. Mark
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  Quote geek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2009 at 5:33pm
BIG THANKS goes to Paul (Stuartracing) for sending me something new to play with and abuse.   The Dyna DC9-2 will be a very fine addition.

My last video showed how at higher pressures there was arcing present outside the chamber between the MSD boots and the plug's base.    I had attempted to run another test using some different MSD boots with the same results.    

After this I used some GE Insulgrease silicone dielectric compound on a new set of MSD boots and cleaned the plugs.  Again the arcing would occur at the boots. 

Next I bought a different set of wires to do a side by side comparison.    NGK D9EA plugs gapped at 0.028" were used.   The repaired MC-4 along with two Blaster coils with towers was again used.     The chamber's air pressure was set to 240 PSIG.     To make the video, again the pressure chamber was not shielded.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWBEjxk-5lM


As I proof my post, my finger on the send key, I pause, read it once more, then press. Mark
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Wade Clark View Drop Down
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  Quote Wade Clark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2009 at 7:07pm
Kudos to you Paul Stewart!
 
I like Marks experiments!
My signature was the same as Fasthouse's signature but then he changed it to some hoodoo voodoo stuff!
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  Quote Stuartracing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2009 at 8:19pm
Originally posted by Wade Clark

Kudos to you Paul Stewart!
 
I like Marks experiments!
STUART.............Ya me too.......Figured Mark could put it to good use.....
Life in the fast lane........
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  Quote Wade Clark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2009 at 8:26pm
Sorry man! Embarrassed Stuart! And I knew, I just slipped.

Edited by Wade Clark - 16 October 2009 at 8:26pm
My signature was the same as Fasthouse's signature but then he changed it to some hoodoo voodoo stuff!
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  Quote Stuartracing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2009 at 9:46pm
COOL......
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  Quote gadget Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2009 at 9:09am

  Have you tried it with the unit grounded????
Carl
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  Quote geek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2009 at 10:30am
What is ground????
As I proof my post, my finger on the send key, I pause, read it once more, then press. Mark
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  Quote gadget Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2009 at 11:00am
Whatever.
Carl
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  Quote geek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2009 at 12:51pm
Carl, just asking if your calling ground the negative side of the battery (in my case power supply) or are you suggesting something else?    The MC-4 is rubber mounted so even on the bike, I do not run a strap from the case to the chassis.     Depending on the coil, the laminates may or may not be exposed.   This new coil that Paul has sent for example is all plastic for the mounting.  The Dyna blue coils have their laminates exposed.    

Currently, to keep from getting zapped, I use about a 1" wide braid from the chamber to the power supply.  This then connects to the wall outlet's ground (the third smaller prong).   This has no effect on the spark, no would you expect it to.  The path is between the two plug wires (unless something is wrong). 
As I proof my post, my finger on the send key, I pause, read it once more, then press. Mark
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  Quote Bill Hahn Jr. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2009 at 1:29pm

Interesting.  If I may chime in, gents...

geek, can you describe this proposed current path in more detail?
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  Quote gadget Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2009 at 1:32pm
I only ask because I don't  see the ground strap going to the chamber???
Carl
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  Quote geek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2009 at 2:06pm
The strap is attached to the copper sheet that the chamber is laying on.     Some tests I used braid wrapped around the stainless inlet tube to the chamber.    Some tests I had the chamber all isolated.  

I think the problem with the thinking in terms a wire being a short and its just not that simple.   The wire I have added is not there to change the spark, it's there to keep me from having to deal with getting zapped.   This is not the return path, so its not like I suffer the wrath of the MC4's blaster coils.  Far from it.  Big smile   Now this would make a good video.



Originally posted by Bill Hahn Jr.

Interesting.  If I may chime in, gents...

geek, can you describe this proposed current path in more detail?


I am not sure I understand the question.  Are you wanting to understand how energy is coupled through a transformer?    If you go to this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer

Then go down to where it has a section called "Basic principles".  There is more detail, but the opening paragraph sums it up.

"The transformer is based on two principles: firstly, that an electric current can produce a magnetic field (electromagnetism) and secondly that a changing magnetic field within a coil of wire induces a voltage across the ends of the coil (electromagnetic induction). Changing the current in the primary coil changes the magnetic flux that is developed. The changing magnetic flux induces a voltage in the secondary coil."


As I proof my post, my finger on the send key, I pause, read it once more, then press. Mark
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  Quote Bill Hahn Jr. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2009 at 2:11pm
No...I was more working along the concept of current path to the spark plug and beyond.  How is this current path completed?  What principle is at work...as the electrical energy passes to the grounded portion of plug / pressure chamber, where is the energy finally dissipated?  What completes the circuit?
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